Are the best head coaches those who sucked as a player?

[Harvey Specter]

I’ve been mulling over this for a while. Are the best college and NFL head coaches the ones who weren’t good as players? It seems the ones who sucked have the drive to prove themselves in a different way, and if you were good, you just don’t have the desire to coach as much.

Could be wrong. The Scott Frost thing had me wondering, because it seems somewhat rare to hear about college head coaches who were studs when they played

 

[Fillup Marschell]

Those who can't ....

 

[Weagle1492]

Those who can't ....

Do other things, sometimes much better and to a higher person than those who "can".

For instance I suck at teaching but I'm great at making money. That statement is pretty asinine. imo.

 

[Fillup Marschell]

Do other things, sometimes much better and to a higher person than those who "can".

For instance I suck at teaching but I'm great at making money. That statement is pretty asinine. imo.

Take it up with George Bernard Shaw

 

[thompgk]

Law of averages maybe? The best players are the 1% and the coaching pool comes from the 99%.

Also the best players usually do well enough for themselves that coaching seems more like a hobby, where someone who needs coaching to eat may treat it more seriously

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

Hell Mike Leach never even played football IIRC.
Edit: Neither did Paul Johnson, David Cutcliffe, or Chad Morris...

 

[jeramye]

I tend to think the odds are better for players that had to completely max out their limited abilities or overcome some physical tool that was lacking. It’s why I’ve always liked TWill as a coach. He had to read everything right to be a SEC LB and also had to be tough as hell. That guy might have insights on the small details of the game that a super talented “born to play the position” physical freak would not.

Very rarely it seems that Hall of Fame caliber players are great at communicating the things that made them great to their players.

 

[MomentInTheSun]

Seems like some of the best coaches were the best players in soccer. I know this doesn’t help much but yeah

 

[Denim Vest]

what is a great corch anyway? A guy that has the best players and isn't a complete idiot.

There's parallel universes where guys like Phil Jackson and Bill Belicheck didn't fall ass backwards into the GOATS and got canned in shame.

 

[jeramye]

Seems like some of the best coaches were the best players in soccer. I know this doesn’t help much but yeah

Eh, that's getting a little overhyped right now because of Zidane and Pep. Jose was an average player. Klopp and Tuchel both mostly played in lower leagues and divisions. Fergie is probably the best manager of all time and was that overachieving guy who only played because he worked harder than most and was far from a great player himself. A lot of legends have been terrible as managers in that sport. Alan Shearer, Maradona, Tony Adams, Paul Gascoigne and Ozzie Ardiles all were terrible as managers. Like, get your team relegated or blasted out of a World Cup early type terrible.

And I might argue that Pep and Zidane are mostly great because they manage teams with all the talent in the world, and that part of managing superstars they get because they know that guy and how he works. I'm not sure either could take a job at Crystal Palace and keep them up or make Everton a title contender.

 

[BigtimeAub]

Seems like some of the best coaches were the best players in soccer. I know this doesn’t help much but yeah

Eh, that's getting a little overhyped right now because of Zidane and Pep. Jose was an average player. Klopp and Tuchel both mostly played in lower leagues and divisions. Fergie is probably the best manager of all time and was that overachieving guy who only played because he worked harder than most and was far from a great player himself. A lot of legends have been terrible as managers in that sport. Alan Shearer, Maradona, Tony Adams, Paul Gascoigne and Ozzie Ardiles all were terrible as managers. Like, get your team relegated or blasted out of a World Cup early type terrible.

And I might argue that Pep and Zidane are mostly great because they manage teams with all the talent in the world, and that part of managing superstars they get because they know that guy and how he works. I'm not sure either could take a job at Crystal Palace and keep them up or make Everton a title contender.

Take that garbage to the softball board. We're talking about MAN sports here.

 

[MomentInTheSun]

Eh, that's getting a little overhyped right now because of Zidane and Pep. Jose was an average player. Klopp and Tuchel both mostly played in lower leagues and divisions. Fergie is probably the best manager of all time and was that overachieving guy who only played because he worked harder than most and was far from a great player himself. A lot of legends have been terrible as managers in that sport. Alan Shearer, Maradona, Tony Adams, Paul Gascoigne and Ozzie Ardiles all were terrible as managers. Like, get your team relegated or blasted out of a World Cup early type terrible.

And I might argue that Pep and Zidane are mostly great because they manage teams with all the talent in the world, and that part of managing superstars they get because they know that guy and how he works. I'm not sure either could take a job at Crystal Palace and keep them up or make Everton a title contender.

Conte was an excellent player. Cruyeff was the main one I was thinking about though. Mancini was also another great player as well. I’m pretty sure Pocchetino player for the Argentina national team too and Simeone.

There’s no set rule or anything but it does seem like former great soccer players thrive in coaching more so than other sports.

Koeman could have been on the list too until before this season

 

[Harvey Specter]

what is a great corch anyway? A guy that has the best players and isn't a complete idiot.

There's parallel universes where guys like Phil Jackson and Bill Belicheck didn't fall ass backwards into the GOATS and got canned in shame.

I can’t disagree with that

 

[MomentInTheSun]

what is a great corch anyway? A guy that has the best players and isn't a complete idiot.

There's parallel universes where guys like Phil Jackson and Bill Belicheck didn't fall ass backwards into the GOATS and got canned in shame.

I think strategy and tactics is kind of overrated, but I think it’s rare to find guys that can motivate so many people with big time egos and get them to play together.

 

[jeramye]

Conte was an excellent player. Cruyeff was the main one I was thinking about though. Mancini was also another great player as well. I’m pretty sure Pocchetino player for the Argentina national team too and Simeone.

There’s no set rule or anything but it does seem like former great soccer players thrive in coaching more so than other sports.

Koeman could have been on the list too until before this season

You are probably right that it's more likely in that sport...it's maybe 50/50 where I feel like with most of our big sports here it's 20/80 with 80% of the great players failing as coaches/managers.

I think a lot of that is that in soccer those guys really can make the team take on their DNA from when they were players more easily for whatever reason. Zidane and Pep were artists on the pitch and their teams reflect that. Conte, Someone and Pooch were hard nosed, hard working, smart players that were great mostly because of their toughness and work ethic over their raw talent. Their teams also reflect that. And Cuyeff reinvented the game in many ways as a player then continued that in his role as manager and director.

I've got my Pocchetino book on it's way here. Looking forward to reading it. The guy is on Saban level as far as insistence on doing things his way and sounding like a borderline cult leader. He and Simeone are my favorite managers in the world. They both get every ounce out of their squads and don't always need huge budgets to compete with the bigger clubs. It also helps that as a kid I was a huge fan of those Argentina team they played on. We sucked so bad I recognized that I'd be better off watching better teams and hoping they did well. Simeone was that sports Draymond Green in many ways.

 

[Harvey Specter]

Also the best players usually do well enough for themselves that coaching seems more like a hobby, where someone who needs coaching to eat may treat it more seriously

I think this is probably true. Also, the ones who weren't good start out coaching at a young age while the others are still playing.

 

[WDE_Tarp]

I think the number one determining factor for coaching is work ethic. The number two factor, and probably what takes those who have #1 to the next level, is intelligence. As someone who coaches high school athletes, it is very rare for the best athletes to also have both of those attributes. The best player I have ever coached in any sport had an incredible work ethic, but honestly he is as dumb as box of rocks. Most of the best athletes I have coached had neither.

 

[jeramye]

I think the number one determining factor for coaching is work ethic. The number two factor, and probably what takes those who have #1 to the next level, is intelligence. As someone who coaches high school athletes, it is very rare for the best athletes to also have both of those attributes. The best player I have ever coached in any sport had an incredible work ethic, but honestly he is as dumb as box of rocks. Most of the best athletes I have coached had neither.

it so rare to have a great athlete who also has a great natural feel for the game AND is intelligent enough you can communicate with them about the game in practice or on the chalk board. Those are the guys that end up being superstars IMO. Guys who can problem solve as well as naturally see the flow of the game and are good athletes are the guys that end up being franchise players who have long careers. Freaks can get by without some of those things because they are freaks.

And you can see this stuff in kids at a young age too. How coachable they are, how quickly they pick up concepts and how they can put them into action in games. But rarely are those kids the best athletes.