If athletes played soccer
- Thread starter Boisgreat
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If they started at 5 and were trained over in Europe, then really good. But even if Russ Westbrook, Dwayne Wade, and Derrick Rose grew up playing soccer here, then I’m not sure they’d be that good. Coaching and competition Would have sucked while they were growing up here
LeBron James between the pipes would practically be a wall.
Messi is 5’7”... Pulisic is 5’8”... we’ve got tens of millions of guys with that size and level of athleticism... we don’t need our “best” athletes, though a couple would be nice, we just need to do a better job recognizing potential and developing the current pool
we don’t so much need Danjel or NCM types to play, as much as we need all the guys who are never going to play D1 football or basketball to give up those sports and play soccer non-stop in well run academies from age 5 or 6
also - I have no idea what I’m talking about - it just seems reasonable from talking to people who seem to know what they’re talking about
we don’t so much need Danjel or NCM types to play, as much as we need all the guys who are never going to play D1 football or basketball to give up those sports and play soccer non-stop in well run academies from age 5 or 6
also - I have no idea what I’m talking about - it just seems reasonable from talking to people who seem to know what they’re talking about
So the issue here isn't athletes as much as people think. In fact, we've often had very "athletic" teams by international standards. Currently we are a bit weak in that area IMO, but many World Cup cycles the US has been plenty athletic.
Soccer more than any sport I've seen has a tendency to have a core identity in nations. A style of play. Italy will always be an elite defensive team, organized and skilled at the art of defending. It's in their soccer DNA. Brazil will always have flash of individual skill in attacking in ways that are unique to them. Eastern European teams and the Scandinavian teams all have certain styles that are recognized as almost inherent to them. Spain have a style of play that is all their own. Some of this is due to the leagues that are based in each nation as well.
We don't have a soccer DNA other than "hustle/hard working". That's not a bad attribute, but it's not really a style of play either. As we've tried to copy other nations style of play we lost some that hustle/hard working and that's what got us in trouble recently IMO. But the larger question still remains to me....what is our national style of play? I think our best bet is to try to be more "German" than anything else. It fits us more than trying to be South American or Italian and we can't even dream of playing like Spain IMO.
Soccer more than any sport I've seen has a tendency to have a core identity in nations. A style of play. Italy will always be an elite defensive team, organized and skilled at the art of defending. It's in their soccer DNA. Brazil will always have flash of individual skill in attacking in ways that are unique to them. Eastern European teams and the Scandinavian teams all have certain styles that are recognized as almost inherent to them. Spain have a style of play that is all their own. Some of this is due to the leagues that are based in each nation as well.
We don't have a soccer DNA other than "hustle/hard working". That's not a bad attribute, but it's not really a style of play either. As we've tried to copy other nations style of play we lost some that hustle/hard working and that's what got us in trouble recently IMO. But the larger question still remains to me....what is our national style of play? I think our best bet is to try to be more "German" than anything else. It fits us more than trying to be South American or Italian and we can't even dream of playing like Spain IMO.
Comparing size is unnecessary. Soccer is just as much a skill sport as tennis and golf. The biggest players aren’t necessarily the best and rarely are
OP has been more active on The Greg of late. I recommend we all keep our eyes on him
It's a different athletic skill set. Size wise you'd think DB's and RB/WR types. PG's from basketball. But watching youth soccer over the years and seeing kids grow up, it's foot skill sets that are inherent in some kids and where we've often failed as a soccer nation is in seeing that. Those kids have a chance of being elite in soccer. Not enough of those kids probably start in the sport young or they don't score 30 goals in a season so they get missed
I've got a great young athlete on my team right now who dominates other kids but he's not a natural at the sport. He's my most impactful player but not the one with the high ceiling. He's winning with athletic ability and not developing as a player because he relies on it. My 3rd most effective player is the one who is going to be a great teenage player and beyond if he wants it. HIs foot skills are natural and undeniable, but he's small and hasn't developed physically yet enough to score at will or dominate a game. But he'll weave in and out of 4 players and take a 1st touch where you know it's just natural to him. He can't finish yet and he gets knocked around cause he's small. Same helping out with the older kids. We have a kid who some of the college players at UAB were obsessed with in a clinic. His feet are elite at 11 years old. But he's not the guy who scores a ton of goals or does the flashy stuff in their games. But soccer people can see it in him. He's got coaches trying to get him into places where talent scouts will see him, yet the average parent at their games would tell you he's middle of the pack on his team cause they don't understand how important what he has is.
I get that but what if the best played, not just the ones that weren't good enough for football and basketball. Even those kids that play soccer since 5 years old would be no match to an athlete with 3 years of high school and 4 years of college training.
I have seen high school football skill players "try" soccer in high school and end up being "elite" very soon there after.
this is very stupidly relative. They're only "elite" relative to the hicks you've seen play soccer. Please stop.
Competition level, youth structure, and importance of the sport all matter more than the athlete IMO. The best athletes still wouldn't have the skill and technical abilities that the youth in these other countries that emphasize nothing but soccer possess and learn. Plus, our depth of competition at the youth levels is behind the other top countries. It's improving, but it's still way behind.
True but also wrong. Guys like Manu Ginobli, a dude from soccer crazed Argentina, couldn’t hack it at as a soccer player but could in the nba. Same with all time great Steve Nash. It’s totally different skills set
I’ll also add that Rick Rubio could make it in the nba without coming close to making it for Fc Barcelona’s first team soccer squad. The idea that all nba players are more skilled and better athletes than European soccer dudes is total trash
I defer to your expertise but I think size speed and athleticism transfer to all sports. We’d never win with flair but we’d be a lot better simply by having our best athletes play.
Elite might be a stretch, but I've seen a guy get taught a few basics and be really good quickly. But they had the natural foot skills. I've also watched the best athlete in a HS, the guys who was the best in every sport he played, walk out there and try repeatedly and look like a clown. I cannot stress how unique the skill set is. It's just different. Obviously if we were a soccer nation we'd be better at separating those guys out and tons of NFL/NBA and even MLB players would be globally known soccer stars. But some of the guys that always get listed would not have "it" either. I'm damn sure of that.
We simply don't know how many potentially great soccer players we have missed here because they never play OR because the system spent years and years identifying the wrong kids. We would always select the best looking athlete, even if his feet sucked by true soccer standards and had zero chance at every being great. And we'd leave the kid out of a chance at the elite camps or clubs teams where he would have had a shot to develop because he didn't look as athletic. Generally speaking, we spent decades unable to identify the guys who could really be impactful. Google guys like Luka Modric or Christian Eriksen and watch a few videos. They aren't great athletes. Neither was Andrea Pirlo. All 3 of those guys are the exact type of creative player the US has never been able to have. They are minus athletes by our standards. I'd almost guarantee you that we've wasted a few of those guys because we didn't identify them and didn't have the ability to coerce their best traits out of them. It's just not as simple as "make Westbrook/Lebron/Wade soccer players". I wish it was bc that would be an easy solution. Just start recruiting the spawn of elite athletes and we raise WC trophies. That won't do it though.
It’s just the idea that any b-ball or nba player could’ve been great at soccer is totally false. You have two all time nba greats that couldn’t hack it in soccer but made an amazing career in the nba. Soccer is totally different and requires crazy amounts of skill. Way more than football or b-ball
Yeah but you can't put NBA dudes out there for the most part. Look at the best to ever play the game...Messi, Pele, Maradona were all 5'5 to 5'8. Ronaldo is the outlier at 6'1. Almost no skilled offensive player is taller than that. Low center of gravity matters a ton. Long legs don't lend themselves to weaving in and out of defenders, staying on your feet with dudes leaning into you and finding tiny windows to get shots off. We've had our guys who won headers and got goals. Brian McBride was a decent player overseas doing that and scored goals for us, but he's far from that elite forward group. I mean Russ is significantly taller than the average soccer center back, the position most likely to have size. Dudes like Messi would shred someone that tall. It's just a bad fit. Russ is an elite, world class athlete, but he's not built for this game.
I think you'd likely be looking at RB's and maybe some DB's. The guys who can hack it at the NBA level are actually not the right fit, other than at goalie. And there I'd agree with you. Give me Lebron/KD types all day there and lets train them up. Jeebus that would be insane to watch.
If we could take the foot skills of say a really good MLS/ Team USA player and apply it to a Westbrook, Wall, etc type athlete where would that put us? I think competitive with the top countries. Weren’t we up around 10th in the world a decade ago?
I’m not saying all NBA greats would automatically be dominant soccer players but you give those type athletes a soccer ball at a young age gonna produce a lot more really good players than we do now.
I’m not saying all NBA greats would automatically be dominant soccer players but you give those type athletes a soccer ball at a young age gonna produce a lot more really good players than we do now.
Yeah but I’m envisioning us playing a lot more like Germany than the likes of Argentina/ Brazil that win with superior ball skills. You can’t really reproduce pure class like Messi.
And yes our goaltending would be superb.
I guess I just think Will Hastings had a better chance at being an “elite” soccer player than Dwyane Wade or Calvin Johnson... and as a nation we have enough Will Hastings’s to compete...
but I also think Iverson could have been the GOAT US soccer player...
I can’t really explain it, I just don’t get think big/strong/fast automatically translates to success... but I’m admittedly a soccer neophyte
but I also think Iverson could have been the GOAT US soccer player...
I can’t really explain it, I just don’t get think big/strong/fast automatically translates to success... but I’m admittedly a soccer neophyte
Again, those guys aren't 6'6. Their leading scorers that you are thinking about, guys like Klose(top scorer in World Cup history), are 6' flat to 6'2 at best. They throw some 6'3 defenders out there occasionally. I do think their model is our model. We have more in common with them in terms of a soccer DNA I think. But that's still not Westbrook/Lebron/KD type stuff. The Germans are a lot of 5'10-6' guys who are thicker and stronger than many of the teams they face. Their advantage is they are still highly skilled at those sizes. They look big to the average person because the other team is 2 inches shorter at almost every spot and not as thick. But those aren't big dudes.
I just cannot put into words how horrible being 6'6 or taller is for this sport unless our playing goalie. You're gonna get nutmeg'd so often they laugh you off the pitch and the start/stop quickness of guys at 5'7 or smaller is going to crush you. I loved seeing tall guys on defense. It's not basketball, where size limits space. Long legs produce spaces for me to operate in if I'm a Pulisic/Messi or pretty much any typically sized creative player in the world. I know that makes no sense to people who haven't played the game, but it's the way it works.
Yeah I don’t envision Lebron or KD being great except in goal. Primarily talking about our up to around 6’5 guys. Can include our world class athletes that play football as well.
I don’t know kinda making up shit but our athletes are just terrible in soccer compared to NBA/ NFL guys. Can’t even run with anyone.
I don’t know kinda making up shit but our athletes are just terrible in soccer compared to NBA/ NFL guys. Can’t even run with anyone.
@jeramye yore takes on futbol are hawt as Fack. This thread is awesome. I love my futbol brethren.
I don't think the athletic ability of US soccer players is any different than any other country to be honest. It's just their shitty technical ability makes them look unathletic by comparison. It's like when you see NBA stars throw out the first pitch at a baseball game and they look like complete idiots. It doesn't mean they're bad athletes, it just means they never learned how to throw a baseball.
Most of my takes are lukewarm oatmeal.
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