OT: The OBBERN Passing Game

[ThrustMaxwell]

The below graphics show Stidham's passes over the last two games. It doesn't make any sense to me at all why we don't use intermediate routes and take advantage of the middle of the field. Is there any method to Gus/Chip's play calls and/or philosophy in the pass game?

 

[Fillup Marschell]

Gus just uses the passing game to make them defend the field to open up the running game. They could also be "hiding" it from future opponents.

 

[Harvey Specter]

The below graphics show Stidham's passes over the last two games. It doesn't make any sense to me at all why we don't use intermediate routes and take advantage of the middle of the field. Is there any method to Gus/Chip's play calls and/or philosophy in the pass game?

If it's Chip, I don't know. If it's Gus, that's all there will be.

Run sweeps to stretch the defense.
Run up the middle then to bring the defense up.
Chunk it deep when they come up.
The Gus Malzahn way.

Works beautifully when there's an athlete back there. Not much when not.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

If it's Chip, I don't know. If it's Gus, that's all there will be.

Run sweeps to stretch the defense.
Run up the middle then to bring the defense up.
Chunk it deep when they come up.
The Gus Malzahn way.

Works beautifully when there's an athlete back there. Not much when not.

Seems semi-retarded not to tailor your offense to your players though. I guess it'll continue to work until we face UGA.

 

[Denim Vest]

A go or screen route that utilizes the middle of the field would be groundbreaking.

 

[Harvey Specter]

Seems semi-retarded not to tailor your offense to your players though. I guess it'll continue to work until we face UGA.

I want an angle route for a RB out of backfield. Been sorely missing. Boogs haven't yet realized that Stidham was sacked on basically the same exact plays against MSU when Clemson was playing. No difference at all other than time. Short passes would help but we don't know how to do them apparently

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

I want an angle route for a RB out of backfield. Been sorely missing. Boogs haven't yet realized that Stidham was sacked on basically the same exact plays against MSU when Clemson was playing. No difference at all other than time. Short passes would help but we don't know how to do them apparently

While looking up exactly what you meant by angle route, I ran across a FLAG FOOTBALL route tree that is exponentially more complex than the one OBBERN is using.

 

[Harvey Specter]

While looking up exactly what you meant by angle route, I ran across a FLAG FOOTBALL route tree that is exponentially more complex than the one OBBERN is using.

Looks like what JMU runs. Angle is just when the back runs like he's going to the line of scrimmage to the right, then cuts back like a slant across the middle. Todd Gurley did one for the Rams Sunday and it was beautiful

 

[WDE_Tarp]

The weirdest thing to me is that intermediate passing is basically all we had with White because his arm strength wasn't very good.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

Looks like what JMU runs. Angle is just when the back runs like he's going to the line of scrimmage to the right, then cuts back like a slant across the middle. Todd Gurley did one for the Rams Sunday and it was beautiful

I'm sorry, that would be a violation of the:

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

The weirdest thing to me is that intermediate passing is basically all we had with White because his arm strength wasn't very good.

Don't forget the naked bootleg, but only after he shredded his knee.

 

[Denim Vest]

I'd be cool if we just stuck MALIK back there and launched bombs 60 yds downfield into single coverage. These 2 HS dickbirds could never utilize a quarter of that flag route tree.

 

[MomentInTheSun]

His shit is so basic. Run the ball well to bring the safeties up. Screens and jet sweeps/fakes to keep the corners close to the los. Then hit them with a deep ball. If the deep ball was successful but brought down short of the goal, then mercilessly run the wildcat. That’s it

 

[ShenaniganZ]

While looking up exactly what you meant by angle route, I ran across a FLAG FOOTBALL route tree that is exponentially more complex than the one OBBERN is using.

I've heard the PCP route is promising.

 

[MomentInTheSun]

Why are there no basic crossing routes in flag football?

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

I've heard the PCP route is promising.

At one time Gus ran some Stop/Go routes but not sure if I remember any other combo routes.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

Why are there no basic crossing routes in flag football?

Any of those WRs could run Any route, I would think. This is just an example of all routes, not combination of routes.

No authoritative intelligence implied.

edit: Sorry, I was thinking of mesh routes with multiple crossing routes. I am pretty sure the drag and slant routes are considered crossing routes.

I love the way Leach and Petrino run their shallow crossing route combos.

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

The boogs passing over the middle ended the second Stidham threw the pick over the middle intended for Hastings against Ga Southern.

 

[FormerlyKnownAsSOLLY]

The below graphics show Stidham's passes over the last two games. It doesn't make any sense to me at all why we don't use intermediate routes and take advantage of the middle of the field. Is there any method to Gus/Chip's play calls and/or philosophy in the pass game?

 

[fairfield35064]

I'd love to see the middle TE screen that Tot used to abuse Florida in '94. Andy Fuller probably had more receiving yards that day than the whole rest of his career, combined.

 

[CJ3131]

To quote, Linda, It hurts so bad. You make it hurt so bad!!

Blaze ON Solly!!! Blaze ON!!

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

The below graphics show Stidham's passes over the last two games. It doesn't make any sense to me at all why we don't use intermediate routes and take advantage of the middle of the field. Is there any method to Gus/Chip's play calls and/or philosophy in the pass game?

I think in the last two games we've tried to force defenses to adjust to the screen game and run game, and it's opened up the deep pass. We're eventually going to run into a team that can stop the run while keeping 2-high in the back.

But I think Chip is doing some good things in the passing game. The Hastings TD was a route adjustment from a play they had run earlier in the game.



I think as the season progresses we're going to see more variation on the RPO and more intermediate stuff. I'm of the opinion that we kinda started over offensively after the Clemson game when Chip completely took over.

I'd like to see us use more pop passes, TE delays/screens, throws to the RB out of the backfield in the middle of the field. Basically anything we can do to take advantage of the defense's LBs playing so fast downhill.

 

[MarcAntony]

About the time you dropped this, I started a thread tbb trying to get to the bottom of the mystery of the missing RPOs. It got derailed a bit, but what spurred me to post it was essentially this. A very noticeable lack of an intermediate passing game, which is something RPOs excel at when deployed properly.

As of now, our RPO game appears to be using only half of the equation - that is to say, Stidham making pre-snap reads based on defensive alignment and either throwing a WR quick screen or handing it off. He's not making post-snap reads on 2nd level defenders, which is where 90+ percent of RPO value lies.

I think there may be some validity to what Dufner wrote, quoted below. It appears to me we culled the playbook down to the bare essentials after the Clemson debacle in an effort to steady Stidham, but starting with Mizzou have slowly been adding elements back week to week. What still has me concerned is that we've only yet to add back the low-hanging fruit, and Stidham has had all day to sit in the pocket and survey the past two weeks, often opting for WRs to come wide OPEN before pulling the trigger.

That's a luxury we won't have down the back half of the schedule. If we aren't able to call and execute the core RPOs we spent all offseason installing and try to go up against UGA/Alabama as a primarily run / play-action team we'll get drilled.

I think as the season progresses we're going to see more variation on the RPO and more intermediate stuff. I'm of the opinion that we kinda started over offensively after the Clemson game when Chip completely took over.

 

[jeramye]

I'd be interested in seeing Chip's stuff from other stops to see if he avoided the middle intermediate stuff like Gus does. Year ago, may have been when he was OC here, I remember Gus talking about the middle of the field being the most dangerous place to throw the ball. Tipped passes, lurking LB's hiding in zones, harder to read what's going on there for college QB's. The outside is easier, simpler. Deep ball goes wrong it's basically a nice punt. I think this is just an example of risk-averse Gus. It's an area he won't target often or at all if he can avoid it because he views it as not worth the risk associated.

My kingdom for some seam routes though.

 

[Harvey Specter]

I'd be interested in seeing Chip's stuff from other stops to see if he avoided the middle intermediate stuff like Gus does. Year ago, may have been when he was OC here, I remember Gus talking about the middle of the field being the most dangerous place to throw the ball. Tipped passes, lurking LB's hiding in zones, harder to read what's going on there for college QB's. The outside is easier, simpler. Deep ball goes wrong it's basically a nice punt. I think this is just an example of risk-averse Gus. It's an area he won't target often or at all if he can avoid it because he views it as not worth the risk associated.

My kingdom for some seam routes though.

What a simpleton. Wants to get away from the zone read attack to prove he can coach a pocket passer, yet thinks he doesn't need the middle of the field.

 

[WDE_Tarp]

As of now, our RPO game appears to be using only half of the equation - that is to say, Stidham making pre-snap reads based on defensive alignment and either throwing a WR quick screen or handing it off. He's not making post-snap reads on 2nd level defenders, which is where 90+ percent of RPO value lies.

This would be huge for the offense. It does appear right now to be based on pre-snap numbers right now, but I have seen some concepts that have to be read to actually be applied. I assume they wouldn't be in there if it wasn't something for Stidham to read. For example, watch Hastings route below. Stidham's eyes are on the overhang LB. If he doesn't stay with Hastings that's a pull and throw. No way to actually execute that with a pre-snap read.

 

[WDE_Tarp]

I'd be interested in seeing Chip's stuff from other stops to see if he avoided the middle intermediate stuff like Gus does. Year ago, may have been when he was OC here, I remember Gus talking about the middle of the field being the most dangerous place to throw the ball. Tipped passes, lurking LB's hiding in zones, harder to read what's going on there for college QB's. The outside is easier, simpler. Deep ball goes wrong it's basically a nice punt. I think this is just an example of risk-averse Gus. It's an area he won't target often or at all if he can avoid it because he views it as not worth the risk associated.

My kingdom for some seam routes though.

Am I crazy though in my thoughts that the middle of the field is basically all we threw with noodle arm White last year?

 

[jeramye]

What a simpleton. Wants to get away from the zone read attack to prove he can coach a pocket passer, yet thinks he doesn't need the middle of the field.

I think we were going to go to the middle more that year though. Which again is a point of interest in the idea that Gus just got away from what he was doing best with Cam and Nick. That UofL game had more stuff in the 8-15 yard range between the numbers than we were used to. We had Duke, who was a guy Gus trusted, in the middle of the field. I think he was trying to go in that direction can then it blew up on him.

Gus's failure for me will always go back to that season and those first few games with Jeremy Johnson as the starter. That's where he went from a simpleton with a good offensive idea that he lucked into to a complete fool who couldn't get a job managing a WalMart.

 

[jeramye]

Am I crazy though in my thoughts that the middle of the field is basically all we threw with noodle arm White last year?

yeah we did. We used it with Duke too. He just seems to avoid it unless he absolutely has to IMO.

This would be huge for the offense. It does appear right now to be based on pre-snap numbers right now, but I have seen some concepts that have to be read to actually be applied. I assume they wouldn't be in there if it wasn't something for Stidham to read. For example, watch Hastings route below. Stidham's eyes are on the overhang LB. If he doesn't stay with Hastings that's a pull and throw. No way to actually execute that with a pre-snap read.

We're not running the routes with the RPO that really stress a defense. We're mostly running something I wouldn't even really deem worthy of being called an RPO. That is, we're mostly throwing WR screens from it. I guess officially that's a pass but I look at that more like an extended run option. And everyone runs that kind of thing now. So we're not unique. I need to see us RPO with a TE running that quick seam route. That's crushing for a LB or safety depending on what the defense is playing. That dude's run at you 3 times in a row and blocked you and now he runs right past you and is streaking down the middle of the field.

We're only stretching the defense sideline to sideline on these RPO's and I need to see a vertical route that's quick hitting.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

yeah we did. We used it with Duke too. He just seems to avoid it unless he absolutely has to IMO.



We're not running the routes with the RPO that really stress a defense. We're mostly running something I wouldn't even really deem worthy of being called an RPO. That is, we're mostly throwing WR screens from it. I guess officially that's a pass but I look at that more like an extended run option. And everyone runs that kind of thing now. So we're not unique. I need to see us RPO with a TE running that quick seam route. That's crushing for a LB or safety depending on what the defense is playing. That dude's run at you 3 times in a row and blocked you and now he runs right past you and is streaking down the middle of the field.

We're only stretching the defense sideline to sideline on these RPO's and I need to see a vertical route that's quick hitting.

"Tight End?" - Gus

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

I'd be interested in seeing Chip's stuff from other stops to see if he avoided the middle intermediate stuff like Gus does. Year ago, may have been when he was OC here, I remember Gus talking about the middle of the field being the most dangerous place to throw the ball. Tipped passes, lurking LB's hiding in zones, harder to read what's going on there for college QB's. The outside is easier, simpler. Deep ball goes wrong it's basically a nice punt. I think this is just an example of risk-averse Gus. It's an area he won't target often or at all if he can avoid it because he views it as not worth the risk associated.

My kingdom for some seam routes though.

This is a highlight video of a slot WR at Southern Miss in 2015. I think there is a lot of this in the playbook that we aren't utilizing yet.

 

[stutsman23]

A go or screen route that utilizes the middle of the field would be groundbreaking.

We need to get Borges involved and force these dumbasses to use McClain in the same way we exploited defenses using Anthony Mix.... Put McClain, Kyle and Nate on the damn field, especially in the redzone. Not many teams have 3 DBs that can man up against those 3 on a given play

 

[stutsman23]

Looks like what JMU runs. Angle is just when the back runs like he's going to the line of scrimmage to the right, then cuts back like a slant across the middle. Todd Gurley did one for the Rams Sunday and it was beautiful

Used to be one of my favorite plays in NCAA on PS2... HB angle was unstoppable with a stud in the backfield

 

[stutsman23]

Don't forget the naked bootleg, but only after he shredded his knee.

"They'll never see it coming"

 

[Dale Yeah]

The below graphics show Stidham's passes over the last two games. It doesn't make any sense to me at all why we don't use intermediate routes and take advantage of the middle of the field. Is there any method to Gus/Chip's play calls and/or philosophy in the pass game?

Had to borrow this post for the boog board. Gave you your credit for the original post.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

Had to borrow this post for the boog board. Gave you your credit for the original post.

Any choice NUGGETS that arise I expect to see.

 

[Fillup Marschell]

Any choice NUGGETS that arise I expect to see.

Don't have any quotes but there are fans out there that keep saying that Gus needs to hand it over for good. At what point do people realize that it will not happen. Maybe for a short time frame or even for the majority of a season, but eventually he is going to pull out his head coach card and trump his inferiors. Why does everyone keep buying this bill of goods that says Gus can keep out of his own way. Why would they want a lame duck coach to begin with. If he can not be trusted on the side of the ball that he supposedly excels at, then why keep him at all? Rhetorical question because Gus will sell them another bill of goods the next few weeks and screw them again come November.

Only thing lacking is a few posts about how if AU wins out and beats bama that they can still get into the playoffs.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

Don't have any quotes but there are fans out there that keep saying that Gus needs to hand it over for good. At what point do people realize that it will not happen. Maybe for a short time frame or even for the majority of a season, but eventually he is going to pull out his head coach card and trump his inferiors. Why does everyone keep buying this bill of goods that says Gus can keep out of his own way. Why would they want a lame duck coach to begin with. If he can not be trusted on the side of the ball that he supposedly excels at, then why keep him at all? Rhetorical question because Gus will sell them another bill of goods the next few weeks and screw them again come November.

Only thing lacking is a few posts about how if AU wins out and beats bama that they can still get into the playoffs.

Congratulate them for finally seeing what us EXPERTS have seen since mid-2014.

 

[Fatz Geronimo]

If he can not be trusted on the side of the ball that he supposedly excels at, then why keep him at all?

that’s been my overarching argument since January... any success this season will be wholly in spite of Gus... our record this year is our absolute baseline performance of what this roster is capable of

why keep someone like that?

Stidham - not developed by Gus... praise be to ART...
skill players - not recruited by Gus... praise be to DAMEYUNE...
defense - absolutely no credit can go to Gus... praise be to BOOM and massive props and crow to Steele & Rotnei for keeping the ball rolling...

what purpose does Gus serve?

 

[4Panic]

The below graphics show Stidham's passes over the last two games. It doesn't make any sense to me at all why we don't use intermediate routes and take advantage of the middle of the field. Is there any method to Gus/Chip's play calls and/or philosophy in the pass game?

I am going to need one of these for the LSU to send to my buddy. Sent the Mizzu one with Gumps face in it and he died. Trying to get his take on the situation right now