OT: Football Experts

[penya87]

I have been thinking a lot about coaching changes. I posted on the bunker a week ago about the past experience of Tubs, Chizik and Malzahn. I think Auburn is similar to UF and UT in terms of historic top-15 programs in wins and ability to recruit. I think the piece that is missing is elite head coaching. Elite head coaches are certainly hard to find, but maybe it can be easier if you can define the criteria that makes a coach elite.

Here is my current list of elite coaching criteria:

1. Power-5 experience 3 years minimum
2. Top-25 program experience
3. Proven winner
4. X's and O's guy. Need to be a legitimate tactician.
5. Passion to coach college kids/recruitment

Thoughts? Feel free to add to the list.

 

[ShenaniganZ]

Who meets yore requirements at this time that you feel would coach at boogU?

 

[penya87]

Who meets yore requirements at this time that you feel would coach at boogU?

I think Mullen would meet those requirements. Chip Kelly as well. Bob Stoops would be 4/5, not sure if he is still passionate. Franklin but he will never leave. Shaw, but he wouldn't likely leave. Thats just the top of my head.

 

[Stanley McRustler]

Expert checking in - Post JJ we need to throw every penny we have at Mike Gundy and Gary Paterson. And yes they will turn us down. I am not sure what to do after that.

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

I think Mullen would meet those requirements. Chip Kelly as well. Bob Stoops would be 4/5, not sure if he is still passionate. Franklin but he will never leave. Shaw, but he wouldn't likely leave. Thats just the top of my head.

Gundy
PETRINO
BOOM

 

[penya87]

Expert checking in - Post JJ we need to throw every penny we have at Mike Gundy and Gary Paterson. And yes they will turn us down. I am not sure what to do after that.

Yes. Patterson and Gundy check off on my list. Both 5/5.

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

Top flight recruiter is probably the biggest quality needed. Especially since we’re surrounded by them.

 

[penya87]

Gundy
PETRINO
BOOM

Yes to them as well.

Think they bring so much more viability and validity to our program than the past two coaches. And its not even close! Les Miles as well. I know he is not received well, but he is back of my list.

 

[penya87]

Top flight recruiter is probably the biggest quality needed. Especially since we’re surrounded by them.

I was think the opposite. My reason why is because recruiting to AU is never really a problem, but roster management and game management have been the biggest issues. But I certainly think you need a Craig or T-Rob or T-Will on the staff.

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

Yes to them as well.

Think they bring so much more viability and validity to our program than the past two coaches. And its not even close! Les Miles as well. I know he is not received well, but he is back of my list.

Would love Les for personality and recruiting, but I’m pretty certain he isn’t a tactician and he’s probably more stubborn than Gus. Do not want.

 

[Denim Vest]

You’ve come to the right place friend. Those are good traits you are looking for but I don’t like to get bogged down with a lot of it. It really comes down to a guy that can recruit the SE. Ideally a disciple of the GOAT (Nick) with the chops to dog cuss youngsters to the best of their ability. An offensive tactician is my preference but not as important as the crootin and cussin part.

That leaves us with these as ideal candidates:
Jimbo
Moose
Lane
Pruitt

Let us remember as Boog U we simply aren’t capable of luring the top tier candidates. I certainly like Petrino as well even though he doesn’t quite fit the profile.

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

I was think the opposite. My reason why is because recruiting to AU is never really a problem, but roster management and game management have been the biggest issues. But I certainly think you need a Craig or T-Rob or T-Will on the staff.

True. Our goob of a coach has done fairly well recruiting here. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we need someone who is willing to play the game and can play it well.

 

[penya87]

You’ve come to the right place friend. Those are good traits you are looking for but I don’t like to get bogged down with a lot of it. It really comes down to a guy that can recruit the SE. Ideally a disciple of the GOAT (Nick) with the chops to dog cuss youngsters to the best of their ability. An offensive tactician is my preference but not as important as the crootin and cussin part.

That leaves us with these as ideal candidates:
Jimbo
Moose
Lane
Pruitt

Let us remember as Boog U we simply aren’t capable of luring the top tier candidates. I certainly like Petrino as well even though he doesn’t quite fit the profile.

Would love Jimbo. He would be in my top tier of candidates.

 

[penya87]

True. Our goob of a coach has done fairly well recruiting here. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we need someone who is willing to play the game and can play it well.

Absolutely, somebody a little slimy like Jimbo or Mullen. Maybe even Kiffin

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

WILL MUSCHAMP
PED STATE FRANKLIN
MIKE GUNDY
DAN MULLEN
JEFF BROHM

 

[Denim Vest]

Would love Jimbo. He would be in my top tier of candidates.

Mine as well. Only reason I give us the slightest chance is because they’ve cratered this year. You can throw the likes of Gundy, Patterson, Chip etc out the window. We have no chance with any of them.

 

[Harvey Specter]

Mark Richt

 

[cookedw]

WILL MUSCHAMP
PED STATE FRANKLIN
MIKE GUNDY
DAN MULLEN
JEFF BROHM

Penya is eliminating:

Brohm

Not to mention Fuente, Frost, and Matt Campbell.

 

[Denim Vest]

True. Our goob of a coach has done fairly well recruiting here. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we need someone who is willing to play the game and can play it well.

There was a time when I thought his offense attracted talent despite his personality. Now he’s just a zero in every way.

Even a guy like Mullen or Bobby while insufferable have some things to offer kids with their offense at least.

 

[penya87]

Mine as well. Only reason I give us the slightest chance is because they’ve cratered this year. You can throw the likes of Gundy, Patterson, Chip etc out the window. We have no chance with any of them.

IIRC hasn't there been whispers for some time that Jimbo and the Admin don't necessarily see eye-to-eye on things. Some turmoil behind the scenes.

 

[penya87]

Penya is eliminating:

Brohm

Not to mention Fuente, Frost, and Matt Campbell.

Fuente is in year two at VT. I can allow him to get an interview.

Brohm, Frost and Campbell do not make my list. Think I have enough names, so please explain why them over the rest.

 

[penya87]

There was a time when I thought his offense attracted talent despite his personality. Now he’s just a zero in every way.

Even a guy like Mullen or Bobby while insufferable have some things to offer kids with their offense at least.

Why do you think Mullen has been stuck at MSU for so long? Is there a backstory to this? Seems like Kirk Ferentz from several years ago. Always rumored to be looking but never able to leave.

 

[cookedw]

Fuente is in year two at VT. I can allow him to get an interview.

Brohm, Frost and Campbell do not make my list. Think I have enough names, so please explain why them over the rest.

Campbell is in year 2 at Iowa St.

 

[penya87]

Campbell is in year 2 at Iowa St.

So maybe we consider him for an interview too. Still don't see enough to put him higher up in my opinion. I get the hype around him but seen this before with others and thats why I put a premium on experience.

 

[WDE_Tarp]

I have been thinking a lot about coaching changes. I posted on the bunker a week ago about the past experience of Tubs, Chizik and Malzahn. I think Auburn is similar to UF and UT in terms of historic top-15 programs in wins and ability to recruit. I think the piece that is missing is elite head coaching. Elite head coaches are certainly hard to find, but maybe it can be easier if you can define the criteria that makes a coach elite.

Here is my current list of elite coaching criteria:

1. Power-5 experience 3 years minimum
2. Top-25 program experience
3. Proven winner
4. X's and O's guy. Need to be a legitimate tactician.
5. Passion to coach college kids/recruitment

Thoughts? Feel free to add to the list.

4. is a bit overrated. Dabo has proven that (though in fairness he goes against 1 - 4).
5. is way more important and it's why Mullen is a solid "no" for me.

 

[penya87]

4. is a bit overrated. Dabo has proven that (though in fairness he goes against 1 - 4).
5. is way more important and it's why Mullen is a solid "no" for me.

I don't know much about Mullen as a recruiter. So that is a fair statement. I do believe recruiting to msu is much different than practically anywhere else.

I think the X's and O's point is based with in game coaching ability. Which is apparently something Gus is incapable of doing. So maybe if the head coach is not the X's and O's guy, he might have the ability to attract top staff and let them make this area a stronger point.

 

[L I G E R]

I was think the opposite. My reason why is because recruiting to AU is never really a problem, but roster management and game management have been the biggest issues. But I certainly think you need a Craig or T-Rob or T-Will on the staff.

If recruiting elite HS QBs, OL and DL has been a struggle to do at ALL (let alone CONSISTENTLY), then recruiting HAS been a problem. It’s probably the biggest current weakness holding our program back.

It simply CANNOT take a backseat to any other metric of a HC and coaching staff. It is the single most important responsibility of college coaches.

I mean, how many more lost recruiting battles for elite talents at those spots, largely to our rivals, do you need to see before you understand it’s a GLARING problem?

How many more years of mediocre or below average play do you need to see?

Every time we lose a recruiting battle to one of our fiercest rivals for an elite, program-changing player at a crucial position (QB, OL, DL, RB), it hurts our program twice. We grow weaker as our opponent grows stronger. Simple guerrilla warfare 101 type stuff here.

 

[penya87]

If recruiting elite HS QBs, OL and DL has been a struggle to do at ALL (let alone CONSISTENTLY), then recruiting HAS been a problem. It’s probably the biggest current weakness holding our program back.

It simply CANNOT take a backseat to any other metric of a HC and coaching staff. It is the single most important responsibility of college coaches.

I mean, how many more lost recruiting battles for elite talents at those spots, largely to our rivals, do you need to see before you understand it’s a GLARING problem?

How many more years of mediocre or below average play do you need to see?

Every time we lose a recruiting battle to one of our fiercest rivals for an elite, program-changing player at a crucial position (QB, OL, DL, RB), it hurts our program twice. We grow weaker as our opponent grows stronger. Simple guerrilla warfare 101 type stuff here.

I don't disagree with your thoughts about recruiting concerning certain positions. You are seem to have more knowledge about the recruiting aspects. Your opinion seems fair. But don't misconstrue my thoughts to be that I don't care to win recruiting battles against rivals or missing some of the glaring weaknesses. My solution is not simply recruit better, but coach better and allow that to lead you to recruiting better. That also includes have a dynamic staff to recruit.

Magical seasons like 2010 are not a hidden secret formula for success. And neither is 2013. Lightning in a bottle paired with once in a generational talent.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

I don't disagree with your thoughts about recruiting concerning certain positions. You are seem to have more knowledge about the recruiting aspects. Your opinion seems fair. But don't misconstrue my thoughts to be that I don't care to win recruiting battles against rivals or missing some of the glaring weaknesses. My solution is not simply recruit better, but coach better and allow that to lead you to recruiting better. That also includes have a dynamic staff to recruit.

Magical seasons like 2010 are not a hidden secret formula for success. And neither is 2013. Lightning in a bottle paired with once in a generational talent.

Most of Gus' "great classes" are smoking mirrors. Tons of OGs and WRs. Not enough OT, DL, QB,RB, or CB that are elite.

 

[RistDownAU]

Expert checking in - Post JJ we need to throw every penny we have at Mike Gundy and Gary Paterson. And yes they will turn us down. I am not sure what to do after that.

Didn't Gary Patterson say he was interested but wanted full control and JJ/powers laughed and said no?

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

Didn't Gary Patterson say he was interested but wanted full control and JJ/powers laughed and said no?

Pretty much from how i heard it.

 

[penya87]

Most of Gus' "great classes" are smoking mirrors. Tons of OGs and WRs. Not enough OT, DL, QB,RB, or CB that are elite.

I will defer to you and others about that. I genuinely don't keep up with it like I probably should. I will say that I like our roster. Could it be better? Sure. I think 1-deep we are top-10 in the country. That, to me, is good enough to make a playoff run. Coaching is the disappointing element of this team. We certainly need to be stronger in other areas as well which include what you mentioned.

 

[RistDownAU]

Pretty much from how i heard it.

Typical. Gus isn't the main problem gents.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

Typical. Gus isn't the main problem gents.

Of course not. Gus is just a symptom of boog culture.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

I will defer to you and others about that. I genuinely don't keep up with it like I probably should. I will say that I like our roster. Could it be better? Sure. I think 1-deep we are top-10 in the country. That, to me, is good enough to make a playoff run. Coaching is the disappointing element of this team. We certainly need to be stronger in other areas as well which include what you mentioned.

Glad you're not in charge of recruiting.

 

[penya87]

Glad you're not in charge of recruiting.

Haha.. Well me too. Chargers and strippers is my only recruiting ability.

 

[ThrustMaxwell]

Haha.. Well me too. Chargers and strippers is my only recruiting ability.

We all have our role to play.

 

[MomentInTheSun]

I think power 5 HC experience isn’t really a requirement or at least shouldn’t be.

I just want an AD that can evaluate leadership talent and knows one when he sees one.

You could tell just from Kirby’s first presser that that dude was a winner and he’d never led a program before. Neither had Jimbo when he took over at FSU.

I just want a competent AD first. Then I’ll worry about the HC.

And ftr, I want Chip Kelly

 

[penya87]

I think power 5 HC experience isn’t really a requirement or at least shouldn’t be.

I just want an AD that can evaluate leadership talent and knows one when he sees one.

You could tell just from Kirby’s first presser that that dude was a winner and he’d never led a program before. Neither had Jimbo when he took over at FSU.

I just want a competent AD first. Then I’ll worry about the HC.

And ftr, I want Chip Kelly

I think I could adjust HC experience for an assistant at a power-5 school. Kirby is unique though. He was paired with Saban for 5 plus years at bama as the DC. That experience certainly counts. I guess Pruitt would be the next guy in that same mold. If an AD thinks he is ready to be the head man, then I guess is all that matters. I just personally value the head coaching experience from a power-5 school.

 

[jeramye]

Most of Gus' "great classes" are smoking mirrors. Tons of OGs and WRs. Not enough OT, DL, QB,RB, or CB that are elite.

A little "chicken or egg" on this.

Is the recruiting itself bad, or is the development of said players and ability to keep them on campus the issue? To me, you are going to lose some players no matter what, but Gus has lost too many and too many that were top shelf of his recruiting classes. A good manager of people keeps that from happening that often IMO. And I think our development sucks more than any other aspect of our program. We've recruited really well at WR to the point we should have one of the elite WR groups in the SEC and it's mediocre at best. Hello unqualified WR coach.

I'd wonder what a better coach would be doing with this same talent. I also worry a coach like Mullen wouldn't get this much talent. The guys out there than we know can do both are hard to get. I'm not sure we can hit one that checks all the boxes, but I'm willing to take a chance on a lot of guys who come up a bit short there. For me, Gus has showed me his ceiling now and it tells me the 13' season was the fluke....the 8-4 or 7-5 type season is the real him. I'm not okay with that. I'd rather gamble on a new guy even if it may not work.