Need better players at the 1 and 2 to make that lineup work. Harper isn’t an elite PG and Bryce is just a streak shooter. Need a lot more from both. It was mainly their play at the end of the year that led to the embarrassing finish.
OT: AUBURN BASKETBALL
- Thread starter Denim Vest
- Start date
Need better players at the 1 and 2 to make that lineup work. Harper isn’t an elite PG and Bryce is just a streak shooter. Need a lot more from both. It was mainly their play at the end of the year that led to the embarrassing finish.
Hooks made an ass out of himself with the whole Leath/Pearl situation. I've seen Hooks on several occasions act like a damn groupie.
He spent a lot of money and didn’t want Pearl to be fired on first whim. I’m on his side, as I’m not a fan of Leath at all. How did he embarrass himself? I thought that was Hokanson?
You keep up the good fight, GP. I'm not gonna go out of my way to criticize the guy who brought us BRUCE for doing what he felt like he needed to do to keep him around.
You keep up the good fight, GP. I'm not gonna go out of my way to criticize the guy who brought us BRUCE for doing what he felt like he needed to do to keep him around.
You think Hooks is the reason Bruce is still at Auburn? lol
Also, what do you mean "keep up the good fight"? I see hooks at games and watch his interactions(ass kissing) and I see his BS on the scout board. I'm making an observation from what I hear and what I see. It literally took me less than a minute to type, so I am not going out of my way.
I'd say that he certainly helped. Nobody really will ever be able to quantify how much, but the way that he publicly organized support and applied pressure to Leath definitely made an impact. If Leath had felt that the fanbase and donors were more apathetic, then it could have easily been the end of Bruce
I want Sharman White to be the new assistant coach. He checks off two key boxes.
On a side note, I don't know Sharman but I sent him an email yesterday. Lets see if he responds.
On a side note, I don't know Sharman but I sent him an email yesterday. Lets see if he responds.
What’s the deal with Frankie Sullivan and the other guy?
I can agree that we need another pure shooter because we don't have a ton of consistency shooting. But I don't see Harper or Brown as a hindrance to this team or their play being the main reason why the season fizzled out, and I certainly don't see the end of the season as an embarrassment.
Did you watch the last month of ball? Once Mikey White of UF showed all the teams how to guard AU, it was ugly from there. Harper was shown who the top PG was in that game, and he was never the same. Coaches started making Brown do anything besides catch and shoot, and that caused him to lose his mind. What the team did this year was great, but they both have to improve their games immensely to have the same or better stats next year.
Well we got nobody in the post to go to and teams just sagged off Horace/ Desean. Harper and Brown were our best players the majority of the year so not worried about them.
I thought Frank Martin was the one to first make Harper frustrated. He didn’t like how physical they played him so far away from the basket
He did with Harper. White put it all together. We started to collapse once coaches realized to get on Harper as soon as possible and take away all his dribble kick outs. Then keep Brown from the catch and shoot, and his game completely collapses. Heron doesn’t do anything to benefit anyone besides himself, and Okeke was too immature and scared to be aggressive. That led us to just getting our ass kicked at the end of the year. We will be much better next year imo.
I was speaking to a Porter era ball player about the season yesterday before our appointment. He made a simple comment that resonated with me. He said “For most of the year we just started making every shot. We were on fire for a long stretch from 3, and it’s hard to lose shooting like that. Then they came back to reality and really struggled”. It’s simple, but we went on a magical run of will and our home crowd making a huge difference. It was a special year, but it wasn’t our talent that got us a championship. And that’s something to be very proud of IMO.
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@Harvey Specter I think that's the game Harper has 9 turnovers and 1 assist. Martin made him look bad.
I happened to catch most of the games at the end of the season. I won’t disagree that they both need to improve, but I don’t think one coach figured us out or that either player just forgot how to play the game. I think there was a culmination of events that led to both of their struggles. Neither are elite or can carry the team by themselves or without key pieces around them playing well to help them. They weren’t before the struggles; they won’t be next year. When this team was at full strength, there was plenty of talk about which was more valuable to the team. But both are capable of being marquee pieces to this team. I took demeat’s comments to say those two guys weren’t good enough to make this team with the lineup he quoted better next year, which I strongly disagree with.
We got a lot of good shooters. They all fell off a cliff at the end of the year. We got 4-5 guys that should be 40% or better from 3.
We need better passing and movement in the half court. Maybe it’s a coincidence but Jared played his worst ball at the end of his FR year as well.
I think we played a little above our heads early in conference and teams made adjustments to frustrate us. We couldn’t create nearly as many transition opportunities after Mac went down. That’s what always gets us Boogin.
I agree with most of what you said, except that I wholeheartedly agree Brown was exposed. I think Harper had an impossible task, and once they figured out how to bully him, it got ugly for us. Brown cannot even dribble, it shocked me it took so long for the SEC coaches to realize all you got to do is stop him from the catch and shoot. Both will start next year, but I’m interested to see how they respond to getting whooped for the last month +. As we all saw, Brown is a baby that quit because he couldn’t get shots. He should be thanking the whole team for looking for him in every situation all year.
4-5 guys? I’m seeing 2 in Chuma and Brown. Maybe 4-5 guys shooting 33%+.
Also, I emphatically agree on your second paragraph. If you’ve noticed with Bruce, we haven’t had players move without the ball his whole tenure. I’d like that to change, but don’t expect to. He’s an elite motivator and recruiter, he needs an x and o guy to complete the coaching staff. If he recruits at a really high level though, coaching won’t matter that much.
Let me preface this with I don't really know wtf I'm talking about, BUT I disagree with this idea. I think people (not saying you just general fans) think that you can be an uptempo team, have different sets, and also run the Princeton offense on the side. I think people underestimate how much of practice time has to go towards practicing the way you want to play. I think we were missing a slasher this year and that hurt us. If Chuma could get more aggressive, Purifoy doesn't settle for 3's and the addition of Doughtry will make Bruce's offense work a lot better next year.
Well definitely Staph. He was 42% last year. His J was off all year. Jared should be in that area. Guys like Mac, Malik and Desean were all shooting it that well earlier in the year. Wouldn't consider any of them great shooters but with the looks Mac and Desean get they can make them at a decent %.
Don't think it's really a Bruce thing on the Xs and Os. Bryce and Staph aren't great at passing off the dribble. I thought Mac at least had some idea how to slip open and receive a lob or pocket pass. I'm sure Bruce and Steven are telling them how to pass and get open off the drive. We had some nice back cuts and lobs here and there but they were gone end of the season.
I like playing dumb "what if" games with potential lineups. I think it would be fun to have a bench mob that came in and their goal was to have a couple of 4 minute stretches each half where they just make the game nuts and frustrate the hell of of the opponent with pressing, trapping, pace pushing insanity. Lets say our starters are Harper/Samir/Danjel/Chuma/Wiley. That group is going to play 1 in/4 out and dare you to play zone or double Wiley against our shooting.
Then the Insane Clown Posse comes in.....
Mitchell
Brown
Malik
Mac
Horace
We press for 90 feet with 2 of the best, most annoying on ball perimeter defenders in the conference. Malik is out there trying to block or dunk anything and everything. We have 2 great rim protector/pogo sticks that clean up some of the stuff that gets past the trap/press. Yes it's offensively a rough looking group, but we get turnovers and blocks, we force pace, we get in the open court where Malik/Mitchell/Brown can shine and Mac/Horace and get lobs. We're not asking them to play in crunch time. We're asking them to come in and steal the other teams soul, wear out their legs and make them hate life. This group would need their own name/slogan and cheering section at The Clam. When they came in the place would know mayhem was coming and just explode.
(this will never happen because it doesn't work as part of a natural rotation but I don't care I like to think about it and I love the idea of Malik leading something that's totally insane)
Then the Insane Clown Posse comes in.....
Mitchell
Brown
Malik
Mac
Horace
We press for 90 feet with 2 of the best, most annoying on ball perimeter defenders in the conference. Malik is out there trying to block or dunk anything and everything. We have 2 great rim protector/pogo sticks that clean up some of the stuff that gets past the trap/press. Yes it's offensively a rough looking group, but we get turnovers and blocks, we force pace, we get in the open court where Malik/Mitchell/Brown can shine and Mac/Horace and get lobs. We're not asking them to play in crunch time. We're asking them to come in and steal the other teams soul, wear out their legs and make them hate life. This group would need their own name/slogan and cheering section at The Clam. When they came in the place would know mayhem was coming and just explode.
(this will never happen because it doesn't work as part of a natural rotation but I don't care I like to think about it and I love the idea of Malik leading something that's totally insane)
Bruce showed more X's and O's skill this year than I thought he had. Missing staff members and still often put us in good spots. In the 1st half vs Clemson we ran practically everything you could run to get open looks and create for our players from a chalkboard perspective. Good, solid set plays that were not "just let them hoop". And our guys just missed or didn't execute a screen or pass that screwed it up. We were just off after a certain date and even good coaching couldn't fix it IMO. It's sports. It happens.
I agree. We were in desperate need of a slasher! Murray was too small to fit the role, and Okeke wasn’t ready mentally.
Agree! Staph needs someone to tell him a long 2 is the worst shot in the game, unless you’re Derozan or Harden quality.
Also, I wouldn't say Bryce has a great handle but he's got enough and the quickness to get to the rim if somebody comes flying out at him. He just has no clue what to do with it when there's a big waiting for him in front of the goal. He improved a lot from just spot up 3. Showed a decent mid range pull up. Hopefully he improves even more but kid was pretty banged up at the end of the year.
I agree that Bruce had more X and O than I thought prior to this year. What most that never played the game don’t understand, is that offensive sets are a small part of the game. You have to teach the players outside of games how to play without the ball. That’s very hard to do, as all the players in college were always the best players that always have the ball in their hands. That’s why you’ll see the top notch teams take a player out after a mistake and have an assistant coach tell them what they did wrong in that situation. They will then put in that player very quickly to not effect his psyche. I believe we didn’t have that extra coach to do that. We were so short staffed, that all the other coaches were just in charge of stats outside of Steven. We had a great start to our program this year, and I’m pumped for the future.
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another pure shooter?
can I interest you in a silky 6’8” stud with a pure stroke and quick release who shot 37% from 3 and 88% from the line playing half the season on 1 leg?
another pure shooter?
can I interest you in a silky 6’8” stud with a pure stroke and quick release who shot 37% from 3 and 88% from the line playing half the season on 1 leg?
Agree on Harper. Losing Mac and having Bryce struggle hurt Harper really badly down the stretch. I think it forced him out of his comfort zone. On Brown, I think the injury affected him physically at first, but it hurt him worse mentally and stayed with him longer. I think the disruption of the offense when we lost Mac ended Brown getting the same comfortable looks he had earlier in the year, and opposing coaches made good defensive adjustments because some of our threats that protected Brown and Harper and Heron and allowed them to be more free were gone.
I think Brown can drive to the basket and finish, but he's not a shakedown, handles-for-days type of dribbler. He's a one fake and go type guy. I think he fell in love with the idea of being the 3-point assassin and the hero of the team, and it ate him up mentally when he struggled to the point where he was of no use at times down the stretch.
If Bryce has one area he needs (and has needed) the most improvement, it's mental toughness. That and understanding his value to the team in other ways besides shooting the 3. I have more faith and belief in Bryce's skills than I think you do, which there's nothing wrong with that. We just disagree somewhat on what he brings to the table.
Bryce needs more pump fake, get to the FT line area stuff next year. Catch, pump, drive.
If people don't understand that his shooting dipped because he couldn't practice I don't know what to tell them. It's like saying a golfer didn't stop making putts because he took 2 months off from practicing putting. The best shooters are often just the guys who put the most work in. Period. Guys like Ray Allen just shot more shots every day than anyone else. Yes the form is great, but a lot of people can work on form and have a pretty slick looking J. The guys that make a big % are guys that shoot hundreds of shots daily. Bryce bottomed out when he couldn't do that. Hit him in the flow of the offense for catch and shoot 3's and let him add that pump fake to midrange jumper and he's a great piece for us at the 2 (just never the point again, please)
We all underestimated how much losing Mac would cripple our offense. The whole “teams figured out how to defend” Jared and Bryce didn’t happen because they were “figured out” it happened because Mac was our best roll/lob/rim runner - and because his hideous shot went in enough that teams couldn’t attack Jared as much as they could when Horace, Desean, or (and this kills me to say) Dr Chuma were setting those screens
Mac could read the defense and pop or roll... Desean is too small to roll and was absolutely terrified to shoot the last 2 months of the year... Horace will do both, but has bad hands and limited range... Chuma won’t roll, will only pop, so teams could allow to pressure Jared and still recover to Chuma... he was taking contested 3’s, not wide open ones
had Chuma stepped up the way we all hoped - Jared and Bryce would have had more room and we’d have had better spacing to exploit the way we were being defended... it’s nothing against Chuma - he’s going to be a stud - we just asked too much of him the last month
Mac could read the defense and pop or roll... Desean is too small to roll and was absolutely terrified to shoot the last 2 months of the year... Horace will do both, but has bad hands and limited range... Chuma won’t roll, will only pop, so teams could allow to pressure Jared and still recover to Chuma... he was taking contested 3’s, not wide open ones
had Chuma stepped up the way we all hoped - Jared and Bryce would have had more room and we’d have had better spacing to exploit the way we were being defended... it’s nothing against Chuma - he’s going to be a stud - we just asked too much of him the last month
Good post. It’s fine we disagree. Brown definitely improved this year off the dribble, but I think he improved from terrible to below average. Glad we can have these discussions on the Greg, really is a quality board with actual discussions.
He will work! He's as pure a stroke as we have, and I think he will play 2 some this year. But I have a feeling he's replacing Heron instead of adding another to the fold. So, I'd prefer to have another along with Brown and Purifoy.
You're probably right about terrible to below average. Good way to put it. If he can take the step from below average to average, his game will be much improved. And like @jeramye said, that pump fake would do wonders for his mid-range and driving game.
Spot on. @jeramye made a great point of the pump fake. If he can add a pump fake and shoot, or pump fake and dribble to either side he’d be unstoppable with a handle. His problem is he only feels comfortable shooting after a left hand dribble. It’s part of the reason Lonzo struggles scoring in the NBA.
true... I guess I hope incremental improvements from Jared, Davion, Chuma, and Mac will be enough with Bryce, Danjel - with or without Stapha
Samir is the wildcard... all we’ve heard is slasher, athletic, get to the rim - but Mustapha shot 33% this year... on 4+ attempts a game... outside a hot 2-3 game stretch, he just never got it going this year... personally I think a lot of that was shot selection, but regardless, Samir shot 28% on 2 attempts a game... it wouldn’t take much improvement for him to get to where Stapha was this year, especially considering Samir shot 77% from the line... Mustapha is a career 79% shooter by comparison - 77% as a freshman, same as Samir, and 80% this year
I’m probably just trying to talk myself out of Heron in case he’s not back next year, but his warts start to show the more you watch him... he’s a great player - but not sure he’s the best “fit” for the rest of the roster... we can replace what he does more easily, and need more of what he doesn’t do well considering our other pieces
another reason our offense struggled - and why I’m excited for Samir (and to a lesser extent Danjel) is no one on our team can create a shot for someone else consistently aside from Jared and Davion...
Murray is good on the perimeter on back cuts, post entries, and lobs... Horace is surprisingly good moving the ball in transition - he sees the floor better than any of the non PG’s, he just has no touch or finesse and it ends terribly as often as it ends well... Chuma struggled... Mac isn’t a threat but improved tremendously from where he was a freshman... and we’ve already covered Bryce and Stapha
Stapha - 0.9 assists/game, actually DECREASED from his freshman year, and 2.1 turnovers, in 28 minutes
Samir - 2.1 assists, 1.9 turnovers, in 23 minutes
Danjel - 1.8 assists, 1.6 turnovers, in 28 minutes
Danjel, as a 4, actually was a better creator and more efficient than Stapha... and both he and Samir are better athletes - and better equipped to handle and move the ball in traffic... our interior passing was abysmal the last half of the season... it was Jared, Stapha, or Desean driving into traffic and getting swallowed up and turning it over - or Davion/someone else dropping it off to someone who dropped it
more spacing and shooting - more Samir and Danjel - a better Davion - and hopefully better hands in the form of Austin and Mac receiving those drop offs - and hopefully we make a huge leap in that area next year
Murray is good on the perimeter on back cuts, post entries, and lobs... Horace is surprisingly good moving the ball in transition - he sees the floor better than any of the non PG’s, he just has no touch or finesse and it ends terribly as often as it ends well... Chuma struggled... Mac isn’t a threat but improved tremendously from where he was a freshman... and we’ve already covered Bryce and Stapha
Stapha - 0.9 assists/game, actually DECREASED from his freshman year, and 2.1 turnovers, in 28 minutes
Samir - 2.1 assists, 1.9 turnovers, in 23 minutes
Danjel - 1.8 assists, 1.6 turnovers, in 28 minutes
Danjel, as a 4, actually was a better creator and more efficient than Stapha... and both he and Samir are better athletes - and better equipped to handle and move the ball in traffic... our interior passing was abysmal the last half of the season... it was Jared, Stapha, or Desean driving into traffic and getting swallowed up and turning it over - or Davion/someone else dropping it off to someone who dropped it
more spacing and shooting - more Samir and Danjel - a better Davion - and hopefully better hands in the form of Austin and Mac receiving those drop offs - and hopefully we make a huge leap in that area next year
