OT: Reference- Hurricane Gustuv

[penya87]

For those that are smarter, 95% of the board, and more connected to the program.. please help me understand college football and the relationship between coach and qb.

I'm going to try to control this word vomit but it might get a little messy.

1. Are we running Gus's offense?
2. Are we running Chips's offense?
3. Is Chip supposedly calling Gus's offense?
4. Is Gus calling Gus's offense?
5. The media and others keep saying Gus's offense must have a DT QB to be successful. So circle back to questions 1-4.
6. If Gus is fired, do we still have a need for a DT QB?
7. Can Justin Fields or Joey Gatewood be successful in a system that is not designed for a DT QB?

Thanks for any assistance.

I'm just thinking ahead and wondering what to do about coach and QB.

 

[Gran_Polla]

For those that are smarter, 95% of the board, and more connected to the program.. please help me understand college football and the relationship between coach and qb.

I'm going to try to control this word vomit but it might get a little messy.

1. Are we running Gus's offense?
2. Are we running Chips's offense?
3. Is Chip supposedly calling Gus's offense?
4. Is Gus calling Gus's offense?
5. The media keeps and others keep saying Gus's offense must have a DT QB to be successful. So circle back to questions 1-4.
6. If Gus is fired, do we still have a need for a DT QB?
7. Can Justin Fields or Joey Gatewood be successful in a system that is not designed for a DT QB?

Thanks for any assistance.

I'm just thinking ahead and wondering what to do about coach and QB.

1. sort of
2. sort of
3. sort of
4. sort of
5. sort of
6. sort of
7. sort of

No problem, I'm here to answer questions.

 

[penya87]

1. sort of
2. sort of
3. sort of
4. sort of
5. sort of
6. sort of
7. sort of

No problem, I'm here to answer questions.

Seems messy.. I just dont understand how we can expect any success with this murky of a situation. Would anybody be in favor of Gus keeping his job if went back to the 2010 or 2013 style of offense with Gatewood or Fields?

 

[Gran_Polla]

Seems messy.. I just dont understand how we can expect any success with this murky of a situation. Would anybody be in favor of Gus keeping his job if went back to the 2010 or 2013 style of offense with Gatewood or Fields?

No, he ran simple passing concepts then as well. Take the Hastings touchdown against Ga Southern. We ran that 2 WR route against Ole Miss in 2010.

 

[Denim Vest]

1-4. Their offenses are one in the same. Both trash HS offenses. Neither will work without a (5) elite athlete at QB
6. Yes because college defenses can't stop one. Just look at pretty much every successful team/ program outside the bama juggernaut.
7. No. There isn't enough time or talent in college to develop a sophisticated pocket passing game that doesn't rely heavily on a QBs ability to run.

 

[BigBallinKemosabi]

Seems messy.. I just dont understand how we can expect any success with this murky of a situation. Would anybody be in favor of Gus keeping his job if went back to the 2010 or 2013 style of offense with Gatewood or Fields?

 

[4Panic]

For those that are smarter, 95% of the board, and more connected to the program.. please help me understand college football and the relationship between coach and qb.

I'm going to try to control this word vomit but it might get a little messy.

1. Are we running Gus's offense? Yes
2. Are we running Chips's offense? Yes
3. Is Chip supposedly calling Gus's offense? Yes
4. Is Gus calling Gus's offense? Yes
5. The media keeps and others keep saying Gus's offense must have a DT QB to be successful. So circle back to questions 1-4. Yes, per my HC and DC buddies Gus's offense does not really scare them without a DT guy. Can they win without one. Yes. Can it thrive? No
6. If Gus is fired, do we still have a need for a DT QB? Sure depending on the HC and OC that replace them
7. Can Justin Fields or Joey Gatewood be successful in a system that is not designed for a DT QB? Absolutely JF can. He is a DT guy who can throw the ball around from the pocket with the best of them. He wants to be a pocket guy and thinks of himself as one, but knows he has the wheels to really, really hurt a defense. My fear here is this shipped sailed/was never really docked at the AU berth. Hope my guys are wrong on this one. Not so sure about Gatewood as a Pro Style QB, but he does not need to be one. He is a great fit for a Gus style offense

Thanks for any assistance.

I'm just thinking ahead and wondering what to do about coach and QB.

Good convo Penya. See my comments above from when I asked those same questions to some buds recently. Happy to hear your thoughts.

 

[penya87]

1-4. Their offenses are one in the same. Both trash HS offenses. Neither will work without a (5) elite athlete at QB
6. Yes because college defenses can't stop one. Just look at pretty much every successful team/ program outside the bama juggernaut.
7. No. There isn't enough time or talent in college to develop a sophisticated pocket passing game that doesn't rely heavily on a QBs ability to run.

Thanks for the reply.. So if you are the AD are you thinking about your next coach based off the QBs on the roster or currently recruited? Essentially, going after Gundy wouldn't make much sense with Malik and Gatewood but maybe he brings his own guy?

 

[penya87]

Good convo Penya. See my comments above from when I asked those same questions to some buds recently. Happy to hear your thoughts.

Thanks the reply! I want Fields so bad! Just don't know if we will be able to reel him in with this staff. Gatewood looks like he has potential but I don't see how Gus could develop him into a better QB.

 

[Fillup Marschell]

Thanks for the reply.. So if you are the AD are you thinking about your next coach based off the QBs on the roster or currently recruited? Essentially, going after Gundy would make much sense with Malik and Gatewood but maybe he brings his own guy?

To be honest if I am the AD, I care more about what happens 2-3 years down the road and not what is going on next year. I want a coach that can hire/fire coaches and can manage the program without external interference. Someone that tells the boosters to sit down shut up and enjoy the ride. I let him decide the next offense. I have to be comfortable with all of these things or he isn't my man. If he can't be found, I stick with Gus.

 

[Denim Vest]

Thanks for the reply.. So if you are the AD are you thinking about your next coach based off the QBs on the roster or currently recruited? Essentially, going after Gundy would make much sense with Malik and Gatewood but maybe he brings his own guy?

Current roster wouldn't be a factor. I don't know a ton about Gundy. I suspect he's smart enough to tailor an offense to his talent. Certainly doesn't hurt to have sophisticated passing principles and an ability to develop a QB. Any idiot can make it work with an electrifying athlete at QB, just look at Gus.

 

[4Panic]

Seems messy.. I just dont understand how we can expect any success with this murky of a situation. Would anybody be in favor of Gus keeping his job if went back to the 2010 or 2013 style of offense with Gatewood or Fields?

Out on the keeping Gus concept. Dude has been given one opportunity after another, year after year to get a DTQB to run his system, yet look where we are today. Round peg in square hole mentality. He thinks he is smarter than everyone, but he isn't. Its really simple, but he makes it so not simple.

Get a star athelete to run around and make plays. That loosens defenses. Drives DC's crazy. It has been proven. I just can't continue to support such idiocy stealing Auburns hard earned money.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

For those that are smarter, 95% of the board, and more connected to the program.. please help me understand college football and the relationship between coach and qb.

I'm going to try to control this word vomit but it might get a little messy.

1. Are we running Gus's offense?
2. Are we running Chips's offense?
3. Is Chip supposedly calling Gus's offense?
4. Is Gus calling Gus's offense?
5. The media and others keep saying Gus's offense must have a DT QB to be successful. So circle back to questions 1-4.
6. If Gus is fired, do we still have a need for a DT QB?
7. Can Justin Fields or Joey Gatewood be successful in a system that is not designed for a DT QB?

Thanks for any assistance.

I'm just thinking ahead and wondering what to do about coach and QB.

From what I've been told:

1. We installed Gus' offense the last couple weeks of fall camp before game 1 and ran that offense in games 1 and 2.

2. We installed some of Chip's offense in the spring and revisited that prior to game 3 and ran that offense in game 3.

3. Chip called some plays in both the GSU and Clem games, but Gus did the majority of the play calling in both.

4. Yes, but last week against Mercer, it was all Chip, both play calling and offensive scheme.

5. I believe the offense we saw in games 1 and 2 are actually Gus' offense and what he prefers to run. He just happened to realize he had two magnificent runners in Cam and Nick that allowed him to make significant changes to the offense to feature their running abilities.

6. I think a HC/OC that can develop a QB as a passer but also utilize him as a runner, if the QB has that skill set, has a distinct advantage against opposing teams. But there has to be a good threat in the passing game or a ridiculously good OL and RB for a 2013 type offense to work. So, a DTQB is ideal if he can throw the ball well.

7. I think Fields is a better passer than Gatewood right now. Both are freakish athletes, but neither are elite passers IMO. I think either could thrive in Clemson's offensive attack. But right now, I only think Fields could be successful in a more pro style, complex passing attack, although I'm not sold on that. I think Gatewood would struggle in a pass heavy or pass complex offense.

 

[penya87]

To be honest if I am the AD, I care more about what happens 2-3 years down the road and not what is going on next year. I want a coach that can hire/fire coaches and can manage the program without external interference. Someone that tells the boosters to sit down shut up and enjoy the ride. I let him decide the next offense. I have to be comfortable with all of these things or he isn't my man. If he can't be found, I stick with Gus.

What is more likely: Gus gets fired first or JJ gets fired first? Seems like both of their seats are equally hot. Is the survival of JJ more likely to trigger a Gus firing? Seems like there is some stake in it for both. Interesting to see the politics of it all play out.

 

[4Panic]

To be honest if I am the AD, I care more about what happens 2-3 years down the road and not what is going on next year. I want a coach that can hire/fire coaches and can manage the program without external interference. Someone that tells the boosters to sit down shit up amd enjoy the ride. I let him decide the next offense. I have to be comfortable with all of these things or he isn't my man. If he can't be found, I stick with Gus.

Well done. Build a program not a one year fix. Have to have a solid longterm plan that involves a guy who has and deserves complete control of the program. Guy who has the eye to be able to hire trusted coaches at will to run his systems. Guy that can be a recruiting closer, and has the leverage/contacts at the high-school level to pull kids from those other schools that are currently burying us in a 6ft hole.

With that said, don't see that happening until you know who is shown the door.

 

[Boytano]

Good ole boys will never let a corch have Saban like reign over the Awbren mens football program, won't ever happen.

 

[Dale Yeah]

For those that are smarter, 95% of the board, and more connected to the program.. please help me understand college football and the relationship between coach and qb.

I'm going to try to control this word vomit but it might get a little messy.

1. Are we running Gus's offense?
2. Are we running Chips's offense?
3. Is Chip supposedly calling Gus's offense?
4. Is Gus calling Gus's offense?
5. The media and others keep saying Gus's offense must have a DT QB to be successful. So circle back to questions 1-4.
6. If Gus is fired, do we still have a need for a DT QB?
7. Can Justin Fields or Joey Gatewood be successful in a system that is not designed for a DT QB?

Thanks for any assistance.

I'm just thinking ahead and wondering what to do about coach and QB.

I think questions 1 and 2 could have been combined as well as 3 and 4 to cause less mess.

 

[ALLTIGER85]

What is more likely: Gus gets fired first or JJ gets fired first? Seems like both of their seats are equally hot. Is the survival of JJ more likely to trigger a Gus firing? Seems like there is some stake in it for both. Interesting to see the politics of it all play out.

JJ first. Then Beep Boop. Should be first order of bidness for the new AD.

 

[fairfield35064]

For those that are smarter, 95% of the board, and more connected to the program.. please help me understand college football and the relationship between coach and qb.

I'm going to try to control this word vomit but it might get a little messy.

1. Are we running Gus's offense?
2. Are we running Chips's offense?
3. Is Chip supposedly calling Gus's offense?
4. Is Gus calling Gus's offense?
5. The media and others keep saying Gus's offense must have a DT QB to be successful. So circle back to questions 1-4.
6. If Gus is fired, do we still have a need for a DT QB?
7. Can Justin Fields or Joey Gatewood be successful in a system that is not designed for a DT QB?

Thanks for any assistance.

I'm just thinking ahead and wondering what to do about coach and QB.

It's my opinion, that unless you can consistently recruit overwhelming talent on the O line, which AUBURN doesn't seem to be able to do, you have to have a QB who can make plays with his legs. If look back through our recent history, the only success we've had as a program is with QBs who can run when the pocket collapses. Even Jason Campbell, who was primarily a pocket passer, looks like Carl Lewis compared to Stidham, or Sean White, and would roll out and throw dimes on the run. We're never going to have the elite type talent that bama consistently has on the line, so a DTQB is a must to have success.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

JJ first. Then Beep Boop. Should be first order of bidness for the new AD.

Just wait until Gus takes his toys back from Lindsey and Lindsey I'm out. Beep boop might not outlast JJ.

 

[4Panic]

Just wait until Gus takes his toys back from Lindsey and Lindsey I'm out. Beep boop might not outlast JJ.

Do we think Chip said give it to me or else after the Clemmy game, or did Beep Bop finally think I have to give Chip a shot, or else? The game plan and play calling for Mercer was obviously a complete 180. I did not dive into the deets of the plays, but it did not look like the normal Beep Bop game plan. Not sure it was much better, but differnet for sure.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

Do we think Chip said give it to me or else after the Clemmy game, or did Beep Bop finally think I have to give Chip a shot, or else? The game plan and play calling for Mercer was obviously a complete 180. I did not dive into the deets of the plays, but it did not look like the normal Beep Bop game plan. Not sure it was much better, but differnet for sure.

Yeah, I think Lindsey said give it to me or else.

On the offense, here's some play call stats. It was Chip's offense:

80 plays
42 designed passes, 38 designed runs

37 first down plays
18 passes, 19 runs

32 RPO's
18 runs, 14 passes
6.79 yards per passing RPO (median 6)
4.29 yards per rushing RPO (median 3)
- drop the 22 yard run the average drops to 3.19

 

[4Panic]

Yeah, I think Lindsey said give it to me or else.

On the offense, here's some play call stats. It was Chip's offense:

80 plays
42 designed passes, 38 designed runs

37 first down plays
18 passes, 19 runs

32 RPO's
18 runs, 14 passes
6.79 yards per passing RPO (median 6)
4.29 yards per rushing RPO (median 3)
- drop the 22 yard run the average drops to 3.19

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing. If we can fix our OL issues, and get into some type of groove that keeps the defenses on their heels, I still beleive Studham can turn this show into a better than avg offense. I might be in the minority here, but I still think Studham will be a very good QB if Beep Bop does not get him kilt first. Where we will continue to struggle is when we face off against the better DC's in the league. The simplicity of our offense just won't cut it when the talent level is equal to, or better than what he throw out there.

 

[Fillup Marschell]

Yeah, I think Lindsey said give it to me or else.

On the offense, here's some play call stats. It was Chip's offense:

80 plays
42 designed passes, 38 designed runs

37 first down plays
18 passes, 19 runs

32 RPO's
18 runs, 14 passes
6.79 yards per passing RPO (median 6)
4.29 yards per rushing RPO (median 3)
- drop the 22 yard run the average drops to 3.19

Any insight into why the OL can't get off blocks and into the second level?

 

[WDE_Tarp]

For those that are smarter, 95% of the board, and more connected to the program.. please help me understand college football and the relationship between coach and qb.

I'm going to try to control this word vomit but it might get a little messy.

1. Are we running Gus's offense?
2. Are we running Chips's offense?
3. Is Chip supposedly calling Gus's offense?
4. Is Gus calling Gus's offense?
5. The media and others keep saying Gus's offense must have a DT QB to be successful. So circle back to questions 1-4.
6. If Gus is fired, do we still have a need for a DT QB?
7. Can Justin Fields or Joey Gatewood be successful in a system that is not designed for a DT QB?

Thanks for any assistance.

I'm just thinking ahead and wondering what to do about coach and QB.

1&2 and sort of 5
First and foremost, Chip Lindsey does not have an offense. He has never created anything in his life. He used to run the Tony Franklin offense which is where you pay Tony Franklin and he sends you everything you need in order to run the offense. Lindsey as a high school coach always threw the ball a lot. For some reason we offered him an analyst position and his career took off. People want to give him credit for Southern Miss, but that is certainly up for debate. The offense Southern Miss ran did not look exactly like Auburn's and it also didn't look exactly like what he did in high school.

Gus Malzahn actually created a lot of his offense (though still from stealing another offense and putting it in the gun), but now there are a lot of people running it better than he did. His offense was not intended to need a dual threat QB, and in high school I'm sure that was fine. How he didn't realize with Cam and Nick that his offense is a million times better with a dual threat QB will always irk me to my core.

3&4. I believe that Chip is calling the plays mostly. That being said the idea that only one guy is sitting there calling plays isn't reality. All the offensive coaches are on the headset and often times there are discussions about what the defense is doing and what plays "should" be there.

6. Depends on who we hire, but probably yes. Basically the question becomes do you want to play 11 vs 11 or 10 vs 11.

7. Fields yes, Gatewood no. That being said, look at Hurts at bama. He isn't even that good, but the fact that he can get away from pressure and make an occasional play won bama 2 or 3 games last year.

 

[Boytano]

7. Fields yes, Gatewood no. That being said, look at Hurts at bama. He isn't even that good, but the fact that he can get away from pressure and make an occasional play won bama 2 or 3 games last year.

I think your selling Master Gatewood short

 

[brazilnut]

Do we think Chip said give it to me or else after the Clemmy game, or did Beep Bop finally think I have to give Chip a shot, or else? The game plan and play calling for Mercer was obviously a complete 180. I did not dive into the deets of the plays, but it did not look like the normal Beep Bop game plan. Not sure it was much better, but differnet for sure.

It was most definitely not a Gus game plan last week... which was refreshing, but also highlighted some pretty glaring issues with Lindsey's scheme as well imo. I was happy to see the short passing game play a role, and we also finally used the backs in the passing game a little bit... Stid still has an internal clock issue right now though, but I hope that he is working his way out of that now that he has at least seen some success. How many balls did we even attempt that were truly downfield throws last week? I can't remember too many at all. So there were some signs of life... but the run game and the run game design was beyond pathetic. ZERO diversity.

How many times did the back-side DE or OLB scrape down the line of scrimmage to make a tackle at or near the line? That is a function of not having any fear whatsoever that we were going to attack the edges imo. They lined up wide with their ends a lot of times, and then just pinched down into the B gaps where we were trying to run. Any normal offensive coach would see this and expose the edges... we decided running Pettway 34 times up the gut was the better plan... not one buck sweep or designed off tackle run. Why??

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

Any insight into why the OL can't get off blocks and into the second level?

I've asked some people about that. No one seems to have a good answer. Some think our OL is operating really slowly and not getting off blocks to get to the second level. Not sure if that's scheme or poor execution.

The OL is really confusing to me, at least from a run game perspective. We return 3 starters plus a fourth who played as essentially a run blocker in heavy sets last year, and we can't block the run. I'm thinking we've made a blocking scheme adjustment recently to coincide with Chip's offense, and it has caused some disruption. Either that or the design of the offense is causing a lack of aggression. Not really sure, but it's a big problem.

 

[Boytano]

I'm thinking we've made a blocking scheme adjustment recently to coincide with Chip's offense, and it has caused some disruption.

I think it's the shifts they've added

 

[WDE_Tarp]

Run game problems are simple, complete lack of intensity. We aren't getting to the 2nd level with our combo blocks. Zone run plays basically take two OL/blockers and assign them to two defenders. If you go back and look at us when we hit our stride last year we were controlling people and getting linemen to the 2nd level. Even against Mercer on Sat there were a ton of plays where the OL came off the ball and then were basically watching the play.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

Run game problems are simple, complete lack of intensity. We aren't getting to the 2nd level with our combo blocks. Zone run plays basically take two OL/blockers and assign them to two defenders. If you go back and look at us when we hit our stride last year we were controlling people and getting linemen to the 2nd level. Even against Mercer on Sat there were a ton of plays where the OL came off the ball and then were basically watching the play.

That's what I don't understand. Why is hat happening? It's not like we've really changed anything in the run game. Are we seeing some really different fronts from defenses that we aren't used to? Are defenses doing something up front to cause our OL to look/play so lost?

 

[WDE_Tarp]

I think your selling Master Gatewood short

Better way to say it is that he will be a lot more valuable to a team that utilizes that strength of his because it makes him better.

That's what I don't understand. Why is hat happening? It's not like we've really changed anything in the run game. Are we seeing some really different fronts from defenses that we aren't used to? Are defenses doing something up front to cause our OL to look/play so lost?

Maybe, but at least against Mercer it looked like we weren't coming off the ball very hard. I did think that Ga Southern was loading up the middle and daring us to run outside.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

Better way to say it is that he will be a lot more valuable to a team that utilizes that strength of his because it makes him better.


Maybe, but at least against Mercer it looked like we weren't coming off the ball very hard. I did think that Ga Southern was loading up the middle and daring us to run outside.

If lack of effort was the main culprit against Mercer, do you expect us to get the run game back on track this week against Mizzou? Effort against an SEC team shouldn't be an issue.

 

[WDE_Tarp]

If lack of effort was the main culprit against Mercer, do you expect us to get the run game back on track this week against Mizzou? Effort against an SEC team shouldn't be an issue.

I certainly hope so. I thought the effort looked good, especially early against Clemson and we got to the 2nd level early but then our energy level just died.